Wayas Says Buhari will drag Nigeria back, asks Obasanjo to leave Jonathan alone

Chief Joseph Wayas is a for­mer senate president. He does not shy away from speaking his mind on any issue.

In this chat, the flamboyant politician spoke on a number of issues, including the unabating criticism of President Good­luck Jonathan, Muhammadu Buhari’s candidature and the state of the nation. He talked to IHEANACHO NWOSU of the Sun in Abuja. Excerpts:

How satisfied are you with the state of the nation?

I am glad that your question came this way. We have made progress, looking at where we are coming from. That is the truth. Before now, we did not know whether we were practising democracy or something else. There is nothing you do in life that is so perfect. With the new experience in place, we can compare the two. Obviously, when you compare the two, you naturally would want to know the one that has received wid­er acclamation. If one has received that, it means it is better.

If you look at everything, you would see that we have made progress. There is a new and free definition of our democracy. If you are sincere enough to look at our na­tion today, you would know that things are better. To say that things are better, you have to equally look at those who are driving the wheel. Individual character and ability dif­fer. Since all human beings cannot be the same, you have to compare those of the past and those of the present.

I would say that if we had democracy from the time we were in office till today, we would have been in a special planet to­day. If our democracy had not been inter­rupted by the military, we would have been in a better state today as a country. What is pleasing in the whole thing is that we are making progress.

How does one place your claim that the country is making progress vis-a-vis the position of some emi­nent Nigerians that corruption is on the increase and electoral laws are not obeyed by political players?

I would have had an open mind to con­sider your question and give you truthful answer. But you started with corruption. That is one word that is very offensive to me. Those who know me know that I detest corruption.

We will soon find out that those who shout corruption, corruption, abusing other people are not themselves free from the vice.

Nigerian people are not different from the people of other parts of the world. If it is presidential system of government that we are practising, we must do like it is done in other systems where the practice has sur­vived for over 100 years. In those climes, you don’t hear this accusation of corruption, corruption. To me, it is not a word to joke with. There is a saying that when you point finger at somebody, two are pointing at the other person but three are pointing at the person himself. So, there is no exception. I believe that we have made some progress. Let us talk about the progress we are mak­ing and concentrate on how to get laudable things done.

Ahead of next year’s elections, some politicians have forced Nigeri­ans to live in fear with their threats. Do you consider this part of the progress the nation is making?

I really want you to define who a politi­cian is. I say this because when it is bad we heap it on the head of politicians. Whereas if you have a problem, you look around and find out what is responsible for it. You look for how to solve the problem and not engag­ing in blame game. If we don’t, then we are not solving our problems.

It is in our interest to continue to work for the progress of this nation. We have to be like other advanced nations. No Nigerian will tell me that he will not be happy to see naira being equal to a dollar.

We all know how we started the devalu­ation of the naira. Those who did it were ig­norant of the implication. They were look­ing at the physical naira and dollar notes, which one would like to put in ones pocket. But today, the story is different. But as I said, we have made progress.

Your position contradicts that of former President Olusegun Obasanjo who recently accused President Jonathan of taking Nigeria backward. Are you saying Obasanjo was not honest in his assessment of the state of affairs in the country?

I have heard about the comments by former President Olusegun Obasanjo, but I do not agree with him. President Jonathan is doing his best. He should leave Jonathan alone. Yes, we may have some grounds to complain. We had some grounds to com­plain when Obasanjo was there, too. Right now, government is supposed to have more money than what was the case.

Take, for example, crude oil prices in the last few days, months, there are complaints that the price has come down. But even at the level it is, the prices are still higher, if not double what it was in those days. Ni­geria is not an exception. Those of us who studied economics in schools abroad or here, we may look at our earlier projec­tions and the progress we have made. As I said a while ago, some years ago, a naira was exchanging for a dollar, but today, you have to take so much naira to get a dollar. These market forces are not done by an in­dividual, they are made to fluctuate accord­ing to how the situation is. But I think we will make more progress if we stop criticiz­ing ourselves unnecessarily. I am not saying that we shouldn’t talk when things are going bad.

You cannot hold the President responsi­ble if the value of naira falls. It is not one ac­tion that makes the naira to fall. It is a com­bination of factors. This outright criticism of Mr. President is out of place. We should be careful whenever we are making certain pronouncements.

Do you approve of the suggestion by some people that total emergen­cy should be declared in some North Eastern states where emergency is ravaging?

Definitely. What is going on in some parts of the country, especially in the North- East, is a problem which the person who wears the shoe knows where it pinches. I believe that the insurgency raving in our country is something that should have been handled much firmer than it is now. Take, for instance, the story about the innocent girls who were kidnapped from their school, we should have done everything to rescue them. These are innocent children who have not harmed the country in any way. We should have been firmer in dealing with the situation. I remember when I was senate president, we had the case of Maitessine, I went after them. I went to a bush in Kano and saw them running. My team was heav­ily armed. They ran away upon sighting us.

If we had handled them with kid-gloves, they would have spread to other parts of the country. I have to be careful so as not to be seen as criticizing anybody.

I am just giving an example, that certain issues in governance need to be handled firmly; you don’t play around it. You have to stand firm and make your position known. That way, you will win.

The 2015 presidency seems to be widening the divide between the North and South, what is your take on the development?

There have been antecedent and history to what is happening now. Until we come to the realisation that this country is for every­body, we may not make the type of progress we desire. The North and South would al­ways haggle for power. When power was in the North, people in the South were crying. It is not surprising that people in the North are crying now. It was because of struggle for power between the two blocs that we decided to include in the constitution rota­tion of power between North and SAouth. When that was introduced, it helped to calm situation. It reminds people that this time is their turn; next time is that of the other peo­ple. As long as we have it turn-by-turn, there would be no problem.

Second term of President Jonathan is a constitutional issue. I remember I was one of those who proposed that if you get to hold power, you should not have more than two terms. It should rotate between the two blocs. Jonathan is occupying his seat con­stitutionally and it is his right within the constitution to seek a second term. After his tenure, power should move to the other part of the country.

We are having difficulty in this rotation arrangement because it is the first time we are doing it. When it becomes part of us, no­body will argue about it any longer. I take a pessimistic view that after someone who has a first term, second term and now want­ing a third term, you can be rest assured that everybody would reject that. What we are doing is peculiar to us; rotation of power is not practiced in Europe or several other countries. Our circumstance is different. People should stay cool and give Jonathan a chance.

If it is in the area of performance, can an­ybody complain that he has not performed? He has performed very well.

But his critics believe that he has not done much in relation to the re­sources at his disposal…….

If everyone had ruled the country the way Jonathan did in four years, Nigeria would have been a different country today. I disagree with anybody accusing him of non-performance. He has performed very well and if given another chance, I am sure he will do better. After his second term, we will support the north to produce his successor.

Gen. Buhari recently said that he has no regret truncating the adminis­tration, in which you were the Senate President, are you incensed by the statement?

You are putting me in a tight corner. Of all the people you talked about, I don’t think I would like to comment on Buhari. Does Buhari know what democracy is all about? He doesn’t. I don’t want to create an impres­sion that there is a war between Buhari and I. One good thing about this country is that people are allowed to say anything they like. Otherwise, I don’t think that people like Bu­hari should be talking in public, especially when people are talking about democracy. He truncated democracy in Nigeria and brought military to take over power. This action swept the constitution aside. Nigeria would have made more progress democrati­cally but for the action of Buhari.

I think that anybody who cannot see the progress that is being made now is either a liar or deliberately engaging in mischief. If we continue the way we are going in the next 20 years or more, Nigeria will be better. Don’t be surprised if people from other parts of the world, years to come, come here to understudy Nigeria, the way we overcame our challenges and rose to the top. They will ask us how did you do it. We are show­ing evidence that we will be successful in future. My appeal to our people, especially politicians, is to be calm, humble and pro­vide leadership. Those in office should re­member that there is no time somebody is not criticized.

Are you saying that electing Bu­hari as President will take the coun­try’s democracy backward?

Without mincing word, I say yes. I say yes because Buhari does not know democ­racy. All his life he has been dictatorial, not listening to opinions from other people. He is used to one opinion only.

How do you rate the senate vis-a-vis what you had during your time?

Your question is meant to make me criti­cize the present senators. Don’t forget that as human beings, we all have different ways of handling things. That makes it difficult comparing the past and the present. I think the only people who know how to handle this are those in the judiciary. They put a scale and placed the same amount of weight to ensure that the scale remains steady. We have made a lot of progress and we will continue to make progress if we are not dis­rupted. What we require is patience and give those in power chance to repair the system. Individual abilities differ.